Can bind be configured to not drop RR's from the cache when the upstream DNS server is unresponsive

Thu Mar 17 23:05:20 UTC 2016

How do you actually expect this to ever work in real life?

If a service knows it is going to be disconnected for a extended
period of time there are plenty of third party DNS providers that
can serve the zone and be delegated to.  If it happens after the
fact then they should spin up new servers and populate the zone and
redelegate to these.

Caches will generally have expired / not learnt the records by the
time you realise that you want to keep records longer so there is
no point even coding support for this into caches.  We don't have
time machines.

If you are desperate configure the zones locally on your servers
and populate the content.  Just don't forget to undo this once the
official servers are working.

Mark

In message <CAOAL9USrRAie1_oDOJnSfn9QQcZHNNWNR4Ev7_e-NfH_dPCWVw at mail.gmail.com>
, Ron writes:
> 
> In general you're right of course,
> 
> but in this case it's a supplier who is unable to keeps his DNS servers
> working, and we just want to keep the connectivity.
> 
> For various reasons it's not that easy to switch to a new supplier,
> and in any case we need an intermediate solution.
> 
> Ron
> 
> 
> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 11:17 PM, Darcy Kevin (FCA) <
> kevin.darcy at fcagroup.com> wrote:
> 
> > Using DNS records beyond the owner-published TTL is risky business. You
> > can=E2=80=99t even know if the same legal entity is providing the content=
>  or
> > services previously published at that address/endpoint, and this
> > uncertainty raises security and/or liability concerns.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > - Kevin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Ron [mailto:ron.arts at gmail.com]
> > *Sent:* Thursday, March 17, 2016 11:46 AM
> > *To:* Darcy Kevin (FCA)
> > *Cc:* bind-users at lists.isc.org
> > *Subject:* Re: Can bind be configured to not drop RR's from the cache
> > when the upstream DNS server is unresponsive
> >
> >
> >
> > I did not mean forwarders, but I had a case where the authoritative name
> > servers for a domain were down
> >
> > for an extended period of time, exceeding the ttl for their records. I wa=
> s
> > curious if I could tell my DNS servers
> >
> > to serve these records for longer than the registered ttl. And I wanted t=
> o
> > automate that.
> >
> >
> >
> > But I'm afraid that's not gonna fly.
> >
> >
> >
> > Ron
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 4:27 PM, Darcy Kevin (FCA) <
> > kevin.darcy at fcagroup.com> wrote:
> >
> > By =E2=80=9Cupstream=E2=80=9D I assume you=E2=80=99re talking about forwa=
> rders. If your forwarders
> > are flakey, have you ever considered simply **not*forwarding**? That
> > would seem to be a better, structural solution to your problem, than
> > holding DNS data beyond its cache-expiration time (a really BAD idea).
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > - Kevin
> >
> > [image: FCA_Pantone_email]
> >
> > *----------------------------------------------------------------------*
> >
> > Kevin Darcy
> > NAFTA Information Security Projects
> >
> >
> >
> > FCA US LLC
> >
> > 1075 W Entrance Dr,
> >
> > Auburn Hills, MI 48326
> >
> > USA
> >
> >
> >
> > Telephone: +1 (248) 838-6601
> > Mobile: +1 (810) 397-0103
> >
> > Email: kevin.darcy at fcagroup.com
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* bind-users-bounces at lists.isc.org [mailto:
> > bind-users-bounces at lists.isc.org] *On Behalf Of *Ron
> > *Sent:* Thursday, March 17, 2016 7:37 AM
> > *To:* bind-users at lists.isc.org
> > *Subject:* Can bind be configured to not drop RR's from the cache when
> > the upstream DNS server is unresponsive
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> >
> >
> > subject says all. Read manpages, could not find this in the FAQ's.
> >
> > Hope this is possible. If not does anyone know of other name servers
> >
> > that offer this option?
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Ron Arts
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Please visit https://lists.isc.org/mailman/listinfo/bind-users to
> > unsubscribe from this list
> >
> > bind-users mailing list
> > bind-users at lists.isc.org
> > https://lists.isc.org/mailman/listinfo/bind-users
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Please visit https://lists.isc.org/mailman/listinfo/bind-users to
> > unsubscribe from this list
> >
> > bind-users mailing list
> > bind-users at lists.isc.org
> > https://lists.isc.org/mailman/listinfo/bind-users
> >
> 
> --001a11402670ce538b052e466a2e
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> 
> <div dir=3D"ltr">In general you're right of course,<div><br></div><div>=
> but in this case it's a supplier who is unable to keeps his DNS servers=
> </div><div>working, and we just want to keep the connectivity.</div><div><b=
> r></div><div>For various reasons it's not that easy to switch to a new =
> supplier,</div><div>and in any case we need an intermediate solution.</div>=
> <div><br></div><div>Ron</div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra=
> "><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 11:17 PM, Darcy Ke=
> vin (FCA) <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:kevin.darcy at fcagroup.com"=
>  target=3D"_blank">kevin.darcy at fcagroup.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><block=
> quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc=
>  solid;padding-left:1ex">
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
> libri","sans-serif";color:black">Using DNS records beyond th=
> e owner-published TTL is risky business. You can=E2=80=99t even know if the=
>  same legal entity is providing the content or services previously
>  published at that address/endpoint, and this uncertainty raises security a=
> nd/or liability concerns.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
> libri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span>=
> </p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
> libri","sans-serif";color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
> =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
> =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
> =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
> =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
> =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
> =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
> =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
> =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
>  - Kevin<u></u><u></u></span></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></sp=
> an></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></sp=
> an></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
> ;Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
> ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Ron [mai=
> lto:<a href=3D"mailto:ron.arts at gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">ron.arts at gmail.=
> com</a>]
> <br>
> <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 17, 2016 11:46 AM<br>
> <b>To:</b> Darcy Kevin (FCA)<br>
> <b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:bind-users at lists.isc.org" target=3D"_blank">bi=
> nd-users at lists.isc.org</a><br>
> <b>Subject:</b> Re: Can bind be configured to not drop RR's from the ca=
> che when the upstream DNS server is unresponsive<u></u><u></u></span></p><d=
> iv><div class=3D"h5">
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">I did not mean forwarders, but I had a case where th=
> e authoritative name servers for a domain were down<u></u><u></u></p>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">for an extended period of time, exceeding the ttl fo=
> r their records. I was curious if I could tell my DNS servers<u></u><u></u>=
> </p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">to serve these records for longer than the registere=
> d ttl. And I wanted to automate that.<u></u><u></u></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">But I'm afraid that's not gonna fly.<u></u><=
> u></u></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Ron<u></u><u></u></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 4:27 PM, Darcy Kevin (FCA) &=
> lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kevin.darcy at fcagroup.com" target=3D"_blank">kevin.darc=
> y at fcagroup.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
> <div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
> libri","sans-serif";color:black">By =E2=80=9Cupstream=E2=80=
> =9D I assume you=E2=80=99re talking about forwarders. If your forwarders ar=
> e flakey, have you ever
>  considered simply *<b>not*forwarding</b>*? That would seem to be a better,=
>  structural solution to your problem, than holding DNS data beyond its cach=
> e-expiration time (a really BAD idea).</span><u></u><u></u></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
> libri","sans-serif";color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u>=
> </p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
> libri","sans-serif";color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
> =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
> =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
> =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
> =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
> =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
> =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
> =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
> =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
>  - Kevin</span><u></u><u></u></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
> libri","sans-serif";color:black"><img border=3D"0" width=3D"=
> 131" height=3D"48" src=3D"cid:image001.jpg at 01D1806A.11EF01E0" alt=3D"FCA_Pa=
> ntone_email"></span><u></u><u></u></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
> ;Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">------------------------=
> ----------------------------------------------</span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Ari=
> al Black","sans-serif";color:black">Kevin Darcy</span><span =
> style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif&quo=
> t;;color:black"><br>
> NAFTA Information Security Projects</span><u></u><u></u></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
> libri","sans-serif";color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u>=
> </p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Ari=
> al Black","sans-serif";color:black">FCA US LLC</span><u></u>=
> <u></u></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Ari=
> al","sans-serif";color:black">1075 W Entrance Dr,</span><u><=
> /u><u></u></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Ari=
> al","sans-serif";color:black">Auburn Hills, MI 48326</span><=
> u></u><u></u></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Ari=
> al","sans-serif";color:black">USA</span><u></u><u></u></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Ari=
> al","sans-serif";color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p=
> >
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Ari=
> al","sans-serif";color:black">Telephone:
> <a href=3D"tel:%2B1%20%28248%29%20838-6601" target=3D"_blank">+1 (248) 838-=
> 6601</a> <br>
> Mobile: <a href=3D"tel:%2B1%20%28810%29%20397-0103" target=3D"_blank">+1 (8=
> 10) 397-0103</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Ari=
> al","sans-serif";color:black">Email:
> <a href=3D"mailto:kevin.darcy at fcagroup.com" target=3D"_blank">kevin.darcy at f=
> cagroup.com</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u><=
> /u></p>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
> ;Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
> ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
> <a href=3D"mailto:bind-users-bounces at lists.isc.org" target=3D"_blank">bind-=
> users-bounces at lists.isc.org</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:bind-users-bounce=
> s at lists.isc.org" target=3D"_blank">bind-users-bounces at lists.isc.org</a>]
> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ron<br>
> <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 17, 2016 7:37 AM<br>
> <b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:bind-users at lists.isc.org" target=3D"_blank">bi=
> nd-users at lists.isc.org</a><br>
> <b>Subject:</b> Can bind be configured to not drop RR's from the cache =
> when the upstream DNS server is unresponsive</span><u></u><u></u></p>
> <div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<u></u><u></u></p>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">subject says all. Read manpages, could not find this=
>  in the FAQ's.<u></u><u></u></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hope this is possible. If not does anyone know of ot=
> her name servers<u></u><u></u></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">that offer this option?<u></u><u></u></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Ron Arts<u></u><u></u></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
> </div>
> <div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
> </div>
> </div>
> </div>
> </div>
> </div>
> </div>
> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Please visit <a href=3D"https://lists.isc.org/mailman/listinfo/bind-users" =
> target=3D"_blank">
> https://lists.isc.org/mailman/listinfo/bind-users</a> to unsubscribe from t=
> his list<br>
> <br>
> bind-users mailing list<br>
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